Great Sailer post on Tim Wise

There has been a lot of discussion about Tim Wise’s post-election rant. Both the best analysis and the best comments are on Sailer’s blog today:

Earlier, on Roissy’s blog, I had written in response to an excerpt from Wise’s article:

The guy who wrote that has his website here:
Yes, I was surprised, but I shouldn’t have been. I always disliked the use of phrases like “race traitor” because they are often applied to people who just want to treat other races equally. But this guy is obviously hating his own race.

and was helpfully reminded both by the person who posted the excerpt and by RV that Wise being Jewish, was not a race traitor but merely a traitor.

However, Wise in his own defense has now disingenuously said

I am white after all, as are my kids, as is my wife, as is my momma, all my immediate family and my best friend too — some who read the piece believe against all logic and in the face of plain English (however aggressive the piece may be), that I have announced, excitedly, the coming of a glorious race war and the end of white people.

I stand by my original interpretation — he may be ethnically 3/4 Jewish but that doesn’t stop him from being a white person and a race traitor, given his self-description above. Of course “race traitor” is still a slightly unfair description, since it implies a previous profession of loyalty he probably never made, and race-blind universalism as an ideology is not so obviously evil as to justify calling someone who holds to it a “traitor”, but given his over-the-top Schadenfreude over the reduction of white people’s influence and prospects, I’m not feeling like being particularly fair to him right now.


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11 Responses to Great Sailer post on Tim Wise

  1. Jehu says:

    I prefer to simply describe him as my enemy. It doesn’t matter too much what identity he claims, his status as my enemy trumps all of the above anyway. What concerns me about him is that he’s working very hard to rehabilitate the Nazis, and he’s succeeding in a way that the Holocaust deniers never did. See, approximately 60% of the Jews in the US are NOT my enemies, as they’re against raising immigration levels and want the laws enforced regarding illegal immigration. Unfortunately that 40% that ARE my enemies includes pretty much all of the elite Jews in the MSM, the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court. There’s a serious danger of ‘branding’ here, should a critical mass of my coethnics wake up and move to a similar level of radicalization to mine. And hey, I’m 4x as Jewish as Hillary Clinton, who made her 1/64th ancestry a selling point in her Senate campaign in NY. I’d really rather not see a serious pogrom in the US, but I’d prefer that to the loss of demographic hegemony for me and mine. With each little addition to me and mine—I’ve a little girl due to arrive in a week or so—I find my position on this hardening.

  2. Anonymous Crab says:

    Wow, it’s getting pretty odd in here. A little too much anti-mudblood sentiment for me, I think.

  3. Crab, this was sparked by Tim Wise’s reaction to the election, which was basically an anti-white rant. The question arises why a white person would hate whites, and an answer was proposed that his Jewishness trumped his whiteness.

    I wanted to discuss this because I think a much simpler explanation is that many white liberals hold themselves as superior to the great mass of unwashed yahoos who make up most of the white people in this country (according to them), and they don’t feel any particular identification with whites as whites so don’t mind criticizing them.

    But a secondary issue is whether Jews are distinct enough ethnically that they might not regard themselves, or rightly be regarded, as of the white race. I think this is wrong also (as someone who is ethnically 1/2 Ashkenazi Jewish but regards himself as 100% white).

  4. Anonymous Crab says:

    There were a number of comments on another post that seemed to be stopping just short of sounding like something out of a white pride rally, too. What Tim Wise is saying, essentially, sarcastically, is this:

    Oh, you redneck tea party idiots are sooooo upset there’ s a black president, you’re so ready to pretend he’s a foreign-born Muslim who hates America and wants to destroy it, well, guess what: it doesn’t matter how upset you are about a black man being president, because soon enough, you’re going to be outnumbered.

    I don’t particularly agree with either the underlying thought (I think the number of people who truthfully oppose Obama solely because he’s black is minuscule) or the nyah-nyah response to that underlying thought, but I think that’s what it is, and I don’t think it’s actually an anti-white rant — it’s more of an anti-racist rant coming from someone who truly doesn’t give a damn what the ethnic makeup of the country is.

    I was raised Jewish myself, and I think these days, most Jewish folk think of themselves as completely white, unless they’re in a situation where they’re being blamed for killing Christ or whatnot, which tends to raise our hackles. That being said, it wasn’t very long ago — 100, 120 years at most, I’d say — where these exact same conversations were being held about how America was being taken over by all those filthy Jews/Irish/Italians, who lived in their own neighborhoods and spoke their own languages and so on. All of this has happened before, etc. etc.

    But in any case, most people start yelling “blood traitor!” (or “race traitor”), I think a lot of us start to just roll our eyes and tune out.

    Completely off topic, did you see where Peggy Noonan called Palin a “nincompoop” today? Classic Noonan, love her when she does that sort of thing.

  5. I think it was clear I was speaking ironically in calling Wise a race traitor, because as you say he doesn’t care what the ethnic makeup of the country is. However, I have researched this guy, and he is a pernicious influence, supporting all sorts of racial grievance-mongering and anti-white discrimination. His whole career is based on shaming white people into giving advantages to blacks and Hispanics. 120 years ago my ancestors were all in Europe, none of them ever benefited in any way from slavery, and I don’t feel any shame at all in opposing this kind of guilt trip.

  6. Fortitudine Vincimus says:

    After reading the blog and the wikipedia link, Tim Wise is a guy is on an ego trip. People on ego trips suck, no matter their political affiliation. It’s not about being white, right, or left. It’s about an out of propotion sense of righteousness that leads to all things bad.

  7. rebelliousvanilla says:

    Crab, yes, all Jews are white only when it benefits them. There’s nothing new there.

    Polymath, I never professed that I will help my parents in old age. I suppose I should let them starve

  8. rebelliousvanilla says:

    Oh, and my parents never professed that they will feed me if they had me either. Nor do women who get abortions – they didn’t profess they will have the child if they get pregnant.

  9. I don’t understand the reference to parents and children professing to care for each other at the ages when it would be necessary. That’s a traditional duty in most societies, but I don’t see how either that duty or an explicit verbal commitment to that duty relates to anything I said in this post.

    If this is drawing a comparison to my statement about needing to profess loyalty to one’s race in the first place in order to be considered a race traitor, I have to say that the traditional morality that speaks about loyalty to one’s family is almost universal, so that someone who feels no such duty would naturally be shunned, while loyalty to any larger group is going to be a matter of arbitrary definition, unless one believes either that “natural law” somehow extends this to arbitrarily distant relatives in some proportionate way, or that people are not free to choose their own circle of loyalty as small or as large as they wish.

    Someone who thinks that “there is no natural law. All rights are social constructs inside a sovereign nation.” and who also has spoken about being loyal only to friends and family when one’s society is (despite relative ethnic homogeneity) politically wrongheaded and crazy would seem not to believe either of those things, so I am not sure I get the connection between my statement about loyalty to one’s race not being naturally presumed and an analogy to loyalty to one’s family which is naturally presumed.

  10. Fortitudine Vincimus says:

    I have a strong suspicion Tim Wise could just have easily been a fanatical rabbi or some other extremist. It has little to do with their opinions and everything to do with their personalities, and it boils down to he basically thinks he knows better how to tell people how to run their lives. He’d have done well during the Spanish Inquisition.

  11. Bastrop says:

    I went to Tulane with Tim Wise and knew him socially in the ’80s. He was always intelligent, with a penchant for riding whatever current liberal cause celebre would attract attention to himself. It’s too bad that his undisputed intelligence is not matched with wisdom. He is a great example that IQ alone is not worth celebrating.

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